I haven’t yet downgraded the software as I plan to, but decided after much debate with myself to pick up a CDS50 to go with my SA30. Seemed OK at first listen to a Dire Straits SACD (Money for Nothing sounded better than I’ve ever heard it in my life!!) and now sat listening to Eric Clapton SACD (analogue CD input) and there are little blips and stutters every now and again that I am getting, almost like a jumping record.
Interestingly I’ve not noticed this until now, I mainly use streaming and play Vinyl. I have had the Tidal distortion issue, don’t know if any of these things are related. Deffo going back to 5.21 firmware
Those small gaps in the music when playing from an analog or digital source are a problem that Arcam knows about. They are working on a solution to this according to them. If you want to solve the problem, you can set it direct on and when the new software comes, hope that they have solved it…
I have had the intermittent short scraping, distorted sound (or what to call it) on analogue CD-input since february when I bought the amp (also with v 521) and the only way to solve the problem for me was to use the analogue direct function or to connect the CDS50 via dig coax…
A swift update about the issue in the topic start. The issue has improved since build 705, however I noticed that the interruptions (little ticks or drop outs) are still present in build 867 (v1.41). The duration is small in time (less then 1 second) but are still noticeable. I can hear these interruptions over ARC, I do not hear these while listening to:
Thanks you actually informed me that there was a new firmware.
I just did the update and it indeed does not improve the situation.
It’s incredible that after all these months we still can’t benefit of a sound without cuts.
I have a deal with my hifi provider that I can return the amp if not solved by the end of the year. Too bad the unit had all the specs I wanted… on paper only.
In reality it took ages to have terrible issues corrected and still to this day I would definitely not recommend it.
Hmmm, that interesting. I’m using Panasonic CX700 series TV and have never had this issue.
Wonder is ARC is a bit like HDMI CEC, where in theory there is a standard, and in reality every manufacturer has own, little bit different, implementation, which is causing lots of compatibility issues? @alex_otb what terrible issues are you referring to? I only know annoying ones
When an sound amplifier has sound cuts, to me it’s already terrible… A good (qualitative and uninterrupted) sound is the first thing we expect from an amplifier don’t we ?
Other examples of poor performance are distorsion or ARC compatibility.
I never dedicated so much budget to an amplifier and never have been so frustrated.
I’m glad that you don’t face issue with Panasonic. It proves that i’s possible on paper with the onboard hardware of the unit.
I know ARC can be a lossy standard but Samsung is the #1 TV brand in the world and Arcam belongs to it ! Facing theses issue is therefore even more a pity.
I’m testing a Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 and I have none of the above listedissues… I would have kept it if I did not preferred the warmer sound of the Arcam…
Well, as said I don’t have sound cuts, so who is right?
You don’t know really if it’s Arcam or Samsung that is not following the standard and causing the issue. And samsung being no. 1 in TV sales doesn’t mean it can freely change the standards because of that, does it?
With Panasonic it’s OK not on paper, but in reality, so draw your own conclusions…
Distortion is annoying, that’s what it is for me.
I said it already - I’m not defending Arcam. In fact I’m also pissed off. Those issues should not be there in the first place, but since they are present, should’ve been fixed long time ago.
But on the other hand if I didn’t have this amp and was looking for info on it, I would’ve thought it’s expensive door stop, based on some comments. And in fact it’s far from it. It’s really nice piece of gear with some annoying issues, that will be fixed.
As for Lyngdorf - try voicing. By using those you should be able to add some warmth to the sound. I think in case of 1120 you can create own voicings to match your taste. That was not possible with 2170 as far as i know.
Just thought I’d add my experiences here. I’m hearing audio dropouts really frequently - as often as once per minute.
In my case, I’m listening to the output of my PC through TOSLINK rather than ARC (@a_muz_ed also seemed to have the same issues with optical). I’m not doing anything particularly challenging in this case - just 48kHz streaming in pretty average quality, but I do have Dirac enabled. I’m running with NET v867. You can hear 4 dropouts below from a single play of a 5:30 length track. I have to say that the constant interruptions to the audio really spoil the experience for me.
Is this kind of experience typically/representative of what other people are hearing? I saw @Pierre_Sahlin mentioned that Arcam are aware of the issue and are trying to fix it, but that was back in October 2020 and I can’t see any update since then - does anyone know if/when it will be fixed?
I suspect that the TV might have a wider drifting clock than the SA30 prefers, causing drop outs. I’ve asked R+D if there is a way to select a wide PLL or if this is something that can be added in an update. I will report back. »
Fun fact: I suggested the very same (Wide PLL selection) back in Augustus last year. At least now I know that me proposition has been heard and will be considered
Yes, it is. Although your recordings show audio interruptions over TOSLINK they sound very similar to what I hear over ARC, refer to recording 2 and 3 in post #10.
In general we don’t know upfront what will be fixed at a particular time. All I can say the original behaviour of build 705 in the TS (dated August 2020) has improved. In build 705 there were little cracks, pops and clicks noticeable once every 2-3 minutes. This vinyl feature has been removed in build 867, the little cracks, pops and clicks are reduced to very short silences. You can hear these silences in your audio recordings of post #30 and the last 2 recordings of post #10. I guess this issue and distortion in general will be one of the attention points the next build, I hope it will improve further.
Thanks very much for explaining! It was actually your post #10 that encouraged me to post my own recordings. I have a couple of questions, given what you said:
Is it correct to say that these issues with audio interruption were introduced in build 705? i.e. in previous builds there were no cracks, pops, clicks or short silences?
In general, the people on this forum are being remarkably patient with Arcam about all of the different problems - some of the issues discussed have been a problem for over a year now and are still unsolved. Add to this the fact that Arcam don’t seem to be making any public statements about the issues (unless I’m missing something) - all of the updates come from members of the forum who have spoken personally to someone at Arcam. Finally, no one seems to know the roadmap or timelines for fixing any of these issues, or if it is indeed possible to fix them. Given all that, what is giving people confidence that these issues will be fixed any time soon and what is stopping them from instead returning their amps?
Yes, I can confirm these audio interruptions were introduced in build 705 as far as ARC is involved. I do not use TOSLINK. I can imagine there is some common ground between all input sources in the digital domain.
Regarding your second remark. Yes, we all know there are quite some issues and quite some forum users have abandoned the SA30. Although this is very personal, I can imaging why they left (we all paid the hefty price tag for an amp with issues). I’m still convinced the issues will be resolved. I believe Arcam does release every now and then a news update, refer to here. Check out other sections of that site, e.g. tech talk. Some of these updates are related to the SA30, e.g. the volume jump issue here. There are some SA30 articles, you have to look for them on the afore mentioned site.
I agree with your view “no one seems to know the roadmap or timelines for fixing any of these issues”, at least from a general public point of view. I assume Arcam has a internal schedule / roadmap of what issues will be addressed in what time frame. I also think it would be a good idea to share some part of it with (potential SA30) customers. In the end I think it will increase customer satisfaction and align expectations before releasing a firmware update.
During the time I was looking for the link above I came across an Harman article asking for: “we want to know what topics you want to read more about in future newsletters”, refer to here. The link also contains a questionary. There is also another questionary here. Maybe the targeted population is different I don’t know for sure but I think this may be an entry point for sending feedback to the top level Harman brand. I guess Harman will forward SA30 requests to the proper subsidiary brand Arcam. Since they are actively looking for feedback it may be a good idea to fill in the questionary?
Started to read a bit more on this topic.
So seems there are in fact some issues with ESS Sabre DACs and some sources. It’s not only Arcam.
A mentioned before, never had any issues with my Panasonic TV, so seems it’s just a bit better source than samsung TV.
Here’s some interesting thread:
OP is talking about some “noise” when playing hi res music using Audiolab 6000A built in dac fed by Node 2i. Wonder if this noise sounds anything like what we call distortion?
The issue here seems to be related to jitter and how ESS DACs handle it.
Now, I’m not expert here, and I’m not sure how Radio waves can affect jitter (I know noise from PSU can), but just realized something. I used to have distortion quite often, and now I haven’t had it for weeks. What changed? Used to have mesh wifi system with main router sitting right next to SA30. Now I did some changes and recabling at home, and I only have one router, located in the middle of the house, so the signal around amp is much weaker.
That’s a Longshot, but wonder if it’s related? It could explain why our experiences are so much different, as each house and layout is different.
It doesn’t have to be wireless, it might some other source of noise nearby amp.
If that would be the source of distortion and TV cracks and pops, that would mean changing PLL settings via firmware should fix the issue, as it did for SA20. But seemingly there is a downside, which is a bit worse sound of the DAC.
I reported the point of Sabre DAC sensibility to Arcam back in Augustus, I hope that since they finally acknowledged it, they will now be able to act quickly to solve it
@David When watching television and listening to my SA30 through the optical output of my Sony television, I still hear those audio dropouts you refer to. Although one day it’s quite frequent, while the other day I can only hear it once or twice during the evening. So it’s a bit of a mixed bag. However, it’s less frequent compared to the previous firmware.
Reading the posts related to the ESS timing, I’m quite confident they provide a solution to this.
Why am I keeping the amp?
Because I have zero issues with streaming radio, listing to my NAS, CD’s (coax) and vinyl (rPhono) and the SA30 just sounds so nice. I’ve had a CXA80 before and it’s quite a step up from that amp. The sound of the SA30 is rhythmic, composed, authoritative, detailed, warm and full. This amp can drag me into the music and that’s what it’s all about for me.
I’m quite confident they will solve these issues, but meanwhile Arcam got them quite a bit of frustrated customers…
