No, it’s not true. Settings and DL curves are kept during upgrade, at least OTA. Maybe it’s different in case of USB upgrade, but I don’t think so. There is a reason why Arcam is specifically telling users to reset after the upgrade. If it would be done automatically, why would they do it?
Unless they changed something recently. If I remember correctly they did such change for AVR’S.
No you didn’t cause any damage. Some users reported same behavior when playing with delay, on the very first firmware that had this option (can’t remember which one was it). It was fixed in next release. So don’t worry
As for direct mode - it should always be used, if amp is effectively only power amp, and all the processing is done by external processor.
But your case shows, that signal is always going through DSP of direct mode is not in use, even if DL is not used.
I agree. But when the DSP is working correctly, it is very hard to hear the difference between direct and non direct except for the 2db of volume change. Which is excellent in my opinion, as it indicates very good ADC and DSP is built into the SA 30. Now to just get the firmware sorted so it stays that way instead of drifting into distortion!
Just to let everyone know, despite my affection towards Arcam, Sevenoaks hifi picked up my Arcam SA30 this morning.
Life is too short and the SA30 has been out for a year and it shouldn’t have such a major distortion problem that affects day to day use.
For anybody that is interested, the replacement for the SA30 will be a MiniDSP SHD (Streamer, Dirac, DSP, DAC and preamp) combined with a Nad C298 power amplifier (state of the art Purifi based amplifier).
I think some people are more affected by the distortion issues than others. I have had it but since the latest firmware update very rarely. The fact Arcam have acknowledged the issue says to me the issue will soon be resolved anyway.
I have been listening to a lot of music recently of various resolutions and have only had it once in the past week.
You can stream the MQA files, but the SHD won’t do the MQA “first unfolding”, so it will be as though playing the file to a non-MQA DAC.
Furthermore the MiniDSP SHD is a very impressive piece of audio equipment. ASR has a very good test review:
With distortion and noise at or below threshold of human hearing, the Minidsp provides competitive performance to some of the best desktop and high-fi DACs yet provides a ton of extra functionality they do not.
ASR has also an review on the Bluesound NODE 2i Streamer. Next to personal preferences (what do you define as better, better signal quality measured in SINAD?) check out the test results and compare it to the MiniDSP SHD, judge for yourself.
As JVS1 points out, the MiniDSP doesn’t support MQA.
MQA is an enormously controversial packaging mechanism to reduce the size of a music file at a time when the internet bandwidth is at an all time high.
I’m currently trialling Tidal and have noticed that you still get 24 bit files in FLAC without MQA.
I think the important bit is that your Node2i isn’t able to achieve 16 bits (just over 14.5bits of resolution), nevermind high resolution files, so is a moot point anyway.
Main difference between SHD and Node is that the former has Dirac Live built in. It’s a game changer.
On the other hand it’s based on Volumio, which is nowhere near BlueOS when it comes to usability.
SHD should sound better, as DAC in node is nothing special. That’s why many users actually use it just as a transport, connecting it to external DAC.
@Aventador_SVJ seems to be interesting setup. I’m curious how C298 sounds compared to SA30. Why SHD instead of C658? Latter one seems more obvious choice for C298. It also has much better app, with similar functionality (+MQA).
SA30 has been tested by some magazine (can’t remember now which one) and it measured very good. SINAD for amp section was actually well above average. Partial results (together with source) can be found on ASR. There is one topic where they combine measurements from different sources.
@paulguk I’m also puzzled by this differences in our experiences with SA30. Was it so, that you switch off amp for the night? I do that, and I haven’t heard distortion for weeks now. Wonder if it’s I.e. some memory leak? Some suggested distortion could be due to insufficient resources (RAM mostly). If there is a leak, it might explain why distortion occurs more often to those, who are using stand by.
Another guess…
I do switch my amp off at night yes. The one observation I did notice was that if I played a mix of albums of different file resolutions I would often get distortion. I know I can resolve the distortion by selecting a different input then going back to the required input so in my example I stream from my NAS so selecting another input then going back to NET would solve it. I had a theory that maybe the DAC wasn’t correctly doing it’s internal switching for the new resolution so now as a matter of course I select another input then go back to NET between albums and I don’t seem to get distortion any more.
I have purchased a setup with the smallest amount of components with the best objective scientific measurements for circa £3k - the MiniDSP SHD appears to be the best objectively measured streamer/Dirac/DSP/Preamp available as measured by ASR, hence why I purchased it.
Similarly, the Nad C298 contains amplification under license from a company called Purifi that pushes objective measurements into the highest quality amplifier territory, potentially the best in the world in the more popular hifi brands (Naim, Arcam, Nad, Rotel et al):- see here on ASR. It has a SINAD of 104dB - this is unreal for an analogue amplifier and betters most DACs!!
The Nad also has auto sensing circuitry which switches on from detecting a signal from the SHD and also switches off automatically.
The Nad C658 is objectively broken ASR and records a SINAD of 90dB (Node 2i measures a SINAD of 88dB and the MiniDSP 112dB) - enormous difference.
I’ve got to say I am surprising myself as I never thought that I be choosing either MiniDSP or Nad against an Arcam but things move on and I see objective measurement as everything and the best equipment I own measures really well - of course Dirac moves the game on perhaps more so than anything (assuming reasonable equipment already).
I can only say that the MiniDSP SHD subjectively sounds a touch better than the Arcam’s digital stage but won’t be able to say anything about analogue performance until the Nad C298 until it arrives tomorrow morning.
The Arcam SA30 is still fantastic and if it didn’t measure well, I would be very surprised and I wouldn’t have considered returning it, if it wasn’t for the terrible distortion problems.
In short SINAD for DAC is 104 dB, for amp 94,5 dB.
I think currently it is on 10th place when it comes to amp SINAD in this ASR table I was referring to.
I know what C298 is and I know about the hype around Purifi Eigentakt. M33 receives very good reviews, so I wonder how 298 sounds, especially compared to SA30.
Haven’t seen C658 measurements, but I know it sounds good.
Haven’t heard SHD, but I know older miniDSP models had quite poor DAC sections, and DL was operating at only 48kHz. Seems they made a progress here. If it only wasn’t for Volumio…
I’m still very much puzzled by this distortion issue. Why for some it’s terrible, and for some (like me) it’s very rare…
@paulguk I’m also usually playing mix of formats. Using Roon Radio, so it’s really a mix of different formats, changing all the time. From 16 bit 44 kHz to 24 bit 192 kHz, with everything in between. And Haven’t heard distortion for a long time. Basically since I started to switch off the amp for the night I have had it maybe 2 times?
I don’t have the distortion issues but I do have my own issue with DIRAC on the latest build that seemingly only I have. Arcam are unable to replicate it.
SINAD (Signal to noise and distortion) and ‘A’ weighted Signal to noise (the figures above show this value) for the SA30 from Hifi news aren’t quite the same thing.
In simple terms, if the digital conversion is non-linear, there will be distortion artefacts.
So in general: The SNR value would be larger than the SINAD value, as the non-linear distortion products would reduce the 104dB figure for the SA30 DAC (ESS 9038).
If the ESS 9038 Sabre DAC had been implemented really well, I would expect a SNR value of greater than 120dB. It is one of the best DACs in the world!
The real point of this is, what is good enough and what resolution of effective bits in your DAC, Amplifier and Speaker will go beyond your ear’s capability and I’m not sure anybody has really agreed this? Certainly the speaker is the weak link in the chain here.
Regardless, the SA30 (coming from a hifi fanatic for over 30 years) is good enough to my ears, so come on Arcam and for the benefit of the retainers, read this post and sort out the flipping distortion issue.
Note: Agreed, older MiniDSP products were nothing special objectively, however the new SHD range has taken MiniDSP into the super league. I sometimes use Volumio but you don’t have to use this - you can use BubbleUPNP, MConnect on your Android phone etc instead.
Ok, my bad. I know what the SINAD is. For some reason assumed they were showing SINAD, and just looked at the numbers.
It doesn’t change the fact it measured really well.
But for me measurements are in a way addition to SQ, not other way around. As said before - I know amps that sound fantastic, even though standard set of measurements suggests it cannot.
I don’t like Mconnect and bubbleupnp
The same way I don’t like MusicLife.
BlueOS is much better.
But of course that’s just my opinion
The next thing that I say is vitally important, think about what you are saying about objective measurements.
Anything that is designed will have a set of requirements and the engineer has to put these requirements into practice.
All aspects of audio equipment can be measured - if one piece of equipment sounds better than another, there is an objective measurement that will show why this is.
There is no magic in audio equipment period. If one piece of audio equipment with higher objective measurements doesn’t sound better than a lower specified item, there is a measurement missing.
Audio Science Review is the best thing to happen to the audio world in my lifetime (although Dirac runs it close) as it takes the subjectivity out of the equation and focusses on objective measurement.
As people realise that audio is all about measurement, the well known audio manufacturers will be forced to up their game and focus on the quality of engineering - if not, the boutique based ones will take over (Benchmark, MiniDSP, Topping) and the big players will disappear.
Well, I agree and disagree with you at the same time
Yes, I agree there’s no magic in audio, it’s all about engineering, and it can be measured.
BUT… usually (never?) all needed measurements are performed. And that’s the issue.
In ASR everything’s based on SINAD, which doesn’t even tell you half of the story. We are buying gear to enjoy the music, the sound it produces. If majority of people (owners, potential owners, reviewers etc.) say Arcam AVR30 sounds better than I.e. Denon devices, yet in ASR measurements Denon is better, what does it tell you? Would you say all those people are wrong, or maybe you would say, that ASR measurements are not complete, and do not take some other (than SINAD) important parameters into account?
Yes, measurements are objective, but they show you only what was measured, but not the whole story if only part of the parameters are there.
Of course there are cases, where measurements are wrong due to errors in methodology, and this was actually shown recently in… ASR measurements of Denon and Arcam AVR’s (choice of the models in my first question was not random ).
In some cases designer can deliberately decide to compromise I.e. noise floor, to gain something else, that will in the end sound better to him and his customers. So in ASR this device might be bashed, but in reality can sound really good.
You still haven’t answered my question I asked some time ago in other thread I think - what parameters are responsible for “holography” effect. How can I tell, if some amp will have a great imaging by just looking at the parameters and measurements?
I’m sure it can be defined and measured - this is no magic. But what to measure?
That’s the reason I prefer to rely on my ears, than measurements. Not because latter ones are not objective, but simply because standard set of measurements done these days doesn’t really say how something sounds.
After upgrading to build 867 my display shows “ROOT Airable” instead of “NET”. Only after powering on it shows NET. When switching back and forth between inputs, the NET input always shows the other text.
This was not the case with the previous firmware, it used to be “NET - Press OK to Browse”
Is this by design, do others have the same issue?
They seem to change it with every update. The latest one doesn’t show you the volume until you start actually streaming meaning it’s possible you could get a rude awakening as soon as it starts playing.
[quote=“rko, post:241, topic:184”]
After upgrading to build 867 my display shows “ROOT Airable” instead of “NET”.
[/quote Arable definition, capable of producing crops; suitable for farming; suited to the plow and for tillage: arable land; arable soil.
Root: the usually underground part of a seed plant body that originates usually from the hypocotyl, functions as an organ of absorption, aeration, and food storage or as a means of anchorage and support, and differs from a stem especially in lacking nodes, buds, and leaves.
So we can guess they are saying the SA 30 is appropriate to bury and it will grow into multiple distortion produce.
