i totally agree and…
Also to say.
My point of view is, if something is not working as it should be then the product is not reliable and that escalates that the company is not serious to release a buggy product with major issues and for this price range and target group.
It is pity story that instead of trying to identify where is my bottleneck in my setup and try to fix it/upgrade with better speakers , Cd Players , cables etc i am chasing ghosts .
Meaning that instead of enjoy the music i am not sure if i am listen Jitters , interrupts etc and if it is from my source or my amplifier.
Even sometime when i listen to music that doesn’t sounds pleasant i am not sure if it is low noise from jitter or bad production of the music.
Unfortunately i want to return my 5weeks amp back to the dealer but i cannot cause the dealer had told me that he will not accept return . So i am stacked and i am quite sure that the issues will never gonna be fixed.
Also to mention that in the same range price there is also very good if not better solution with out that kind of issues (Primare i15Prisma , Nad C368-C388, Cambridge Audio Cxa81 + Cxn streamer , Hegel H120 and others )
Iarvanit,
I do not know what return policy your dealer applies in general, but this is a very specific case: the product has a malfunctioning. That must be covered by the warranty and you have to right to demand a solution to have a fully functional unit in a reasonable time. In most Countries by low during the first year the dealer is responsible to apply the warranty conditions. If yours is an authorised Arcam dealer he will probably know that a simple replacement of the unit would not be an effective solution in the current situation. Do not let it go off if you think you cannot wait until the problem is solved (which by the way I am sure will happen thanks to the folks here) and ask for an exchange with a different brand.
I’ll ask question, that was already asked - which country are you from? In EU at least you have a right to return product, that is “not fit for purpose” or not as advertised, for 24 months after purchase.
But in reality sometimes it might be a hassle, although law is still on your side.
That’s actually interesting statement. What makes you so sure it will never get fixed? I actually think it will.
None of those has any kind of room correction, so for me not really direct competition. And none of them actually sound better (ok, not sure about Primare, as i haven’t heard it). Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 or NAD M10 would be real competitors.
I’ll ask question, that was already asked - which country are you from? In EU at least you have a right to return product, that is “not fit for purpose” or not as advertised, for 24 months after purchase.
But in reality sometimes it might be a hassle, although law is still on your side.
I am from Greece, and according the seller the product has guarantee so i can return it with a new Arcam SA30? But he said to me that he can not accept to return an used Amp and refund me or purchase a different Brand.
That’s actually interesting statement. What makes you so sure it will never get fixed? I actually think it will.
Because issues should be fixed after 2-3 max Firmware’s , after 1+ year and still they don’t know nothing. And now they recruit Beta Users for feedback.Nice decision but late decision, it should be done this before the release of the product at the wide market. But i wish and hope to fix it.
None of those has any kind of room correction, so for me not really direct competition. And none of them actually sound better (ok, not sure about Primare, as i haven’t heard it). Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 or NAD M10 would be real competitors.
It is a matter of perpesctive , i dont really care about Dirac . Yes it is an extra feature but it does not hold me from choose other Amps . So for me there is competition.
Well, Greece is in EU. You as a customer can choose whether you use the manufacturer warranty OR seller warranty. This is based on EU directive: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32011L0083
Seller cannot say no. However he may choose the way to handle the case. So seller can send your unit to service, but if it is returned to you still not fixed (and we know it will not be), you have the right to demand full refund.
Well, you’re right, but it’s not proving that it will never get fixed. It’s proving, that Arcam is slow on fixing this, not open enough etc. But i wouldn’t say it means, it will for sure never get fixed.
Actually we’re now testing beta and it has own issues, but seems that distortion is in fact gone thanks to new DSP firmware.
Now it’s up to you to decide whether you’re so pissed off you want to return the amp no matter what, or wait a bit and have it working as it should from the beginning.
For me Dirac is a must due to the room.
But that’s not the point. The point is, that direct competition requires similar/same feature set. One of the most important features of SA30 is actually Dirac. It’s also quite expensive to implement. So if you compare pure analogue amp for 2.5k€ with SA30 in the same price, probably analogue amp will be better as… pure analogue amp. You’re paying 2.5k just for this function alone, where in SA30 in the same rice you get streamer and DSP. So it’s quite obvious Arcam had to save here and there, to be able to add those features keeping the price.
Hope you know what i mean.
I understand what you mean ,and that’s why i compare quite similar Amps.
Amps with DAC & streamer and no Pure Analogs.
Of course it is never the same , one amp has more power , other one has better DAC or better Streamer or HDMI or DIRAC or Phono etc.
So it depends of what you want and what is more important to you.
Arcam belongs to Intergrated Amp (DAC+Streamer).
But at the end of the day you want to sound nice and to enjoy the extra features.
And you know that it will not sound as a pure analog at the same price but you choose to have not as good sound as a pure in favour of the convenience that an integrate can give.
I would like to highlight that unhappy of the Arcam firmware issues, I’ve tested the TDAI-1120 on my Dali Opticon 6 speakers.
The SA30 won all the way in terms of sound quality. The sound of the Lyngdorf was more metallic, less warm, too “analytic”… bottom line: with the Lyngdorf the sound was pure but my listening pleasure was gone.
Still, it had none of the firmware issue I still face with the Arcam unit. I eventually kept the SA30, hoping they will eventually bring it the needed maturity to its software foundations.
The legal guarantee is valid for a period of two years throughout the EU. But there are certain conditions.
The legal guarantee covers any defects presumed to have existed at the time of delivery and which become apparent within a period of two years. However, the crucial period is the 6 months after you bought your product:
Any fault that appears within 6 months will be presumed to have existed at the time of delivery. The seller must then repair or replace free of charge, or reimburse you if repair or replacement is impossible.
After 6 months, you can still hold the seller responsible for any defects up to the end of the two-year guarantee period. However, the seller can ask you to prove that the defect existed when your goods were delivered. This is often difficult, and you will may have to involve a technical expert.
More details here:
Personnaly, I’ve collected all the proofs that my ongoing issues are there since I purchased the item (last summer) and will not hesitate one second to use my right at the end of the warranty period if Arcam did not fix their firmware in due time.
Well, I send my SA30 with a warranty claim now for the second time and ARCAM is refusing to take the unit back. The local support (Germany) claimed the unit had none of my stated issues. I just got the unit back with zero comment.
I am quite shocked of this behaviour. The only thing I wanted was a functioning product. Before I wanted to return the SA30 I wrote five email to ARCAM and they promised to fix the issues.
I would not be too sure you can return your unit.
I am still interessed in a fix and would be willing to join the beta programm if possible.
I have reviewed the release notes of the latest firmware and to my disappointment there was very litlle information in it. Nothing about the distortion issue and many of the other issues mentioned in this forum.
I would appreciate a section with Known Issues with a status update. @arcam_paul please ask the team to add this next time. Given the patience we have shown waiting for updates we are entitled to be informed better.
Apologies for the recent silence, I’ve been on annual leave this past week and swamped with a project the week before.
To give you a little context, we are currently in the process of pulling in years worth of work to our network / streaming / DSP code. This is a monumental task and is honestly taking longer than anticipated. I absolutely understand your concern about the silence, but I’d like to reassure you that work is still on going, and we’re roughly on track, albeit delayed somewhat.
To that effect, we have a project meeting tomorrow (Wednesday) after which I hope to be able to share some information about a new firmware beta. If we get the “go ahead” from engineering, the build will then get passed over to our QA before we announce it here.
I know the focus of this build is on dropouts and distortions, but I’ll know more tomorrow.
Thank you very much for update, and no worries - you deserved your holiday
But your message brings the hope back, and we’re waiting for good news
I think i can say for everyone, thanks for your engagement.
Hi folks, as promised here’s an update from today’s project meeting.
We are currently testing an early build of the next release of SA30/Net firmware. It is currently with QA to decide if it is appropriate for release to our limited group of testers in the community here.
Initially, we need to bring in a huge amount changes made over a few years, in order to have a stronger foundation to introduce fixes on top of. This work is still underway, so there are things that aren’t addressed in the build.
The good news is we haven’t been able to reproduce any audio dropouts via the digital inputs (external or ARC).
We have found an issue with Dirac while Roon is active. This is currently under investigation, but based on initial testing, other inputs (streaming, digital inputs) are not affected.
QA have reported they can still reproduce distortion with 88.2kHz sources. This is being tracked on our internal bug tracking system, so we will need to finish porting the existing code before this is fixed.
Thank you very much for the update and keeping us in the loop. I am happy to test when the QA team is ready to release the beta. I am glad the dropouts are sorted for those that use the SA 30 with the digital inputs and ARC. I do not use my SA 30 in this setup, so I can’t test for dropouts. But I use Roon and Dirac and it seems my fixes are yet to be discovered. Ready to help.
Does that mean that dropouts using analogue inputs are still there when using DIRAC? I have an Arcam tuner connected to PVR, and an Arcam CD player connected via CD.
We’re testing now latest beta and so far so good. No dropouts, not distortion, seems stable.
According to Paul there’s some glitch with radio, which i’m rarely using anyway.
I’m guessing Arcam will want to fix that radio before it’s released to public. Paul mentioned beginning of July as planned release date, but it might change.
Anyway we’re very close
